Know The True Value Of Every Lead With Keith Perhac

What we're doing is we're training Facebook to bring us crap leads because We had what is that something like two Thousand three thousand leads that never Turned into a trial that Facebook was Saying yeah we're doing the right thing We're sending you good people and they Were not and so what we need to start Doing is take that middle of funnel Conversion or that end to funnel Conversion or even that Revenue over a Lifetime and send that back into Facebook so we need to be able to Identify who are the where are the good Campaigns who are the good people coming Into our funnel send that information Back to Facebook so they bring us more Of those people and not people who are Just kicking the tires or signing up for A free PDF or any of that kind of stuff [Music] Hi everyone and welcome to another Episode of the high level Spotlight Sessions where we showcase awesome Marketers doing awesome marketing today I'm excited to be joined by Keith purak He's the founder and CEO of segmetrics a Middle of funnel business Analytics tool Keith thank you so much for coming on The show Chase thanks for having me man Been looking forward to this yeah Likewise it's good to see you again it's Always nice to get to chat um I feel Like a lot of our community have

Probably already heard of segmetrics so I'm excited to uh to chop it up with you Today it's a happy surprise we met at TNC and I would go to all these Conferences and all these talks and Stuff and be like I'm Keith from Segmetrics let me tell you about what we Do and they're like we use you I'm like That's great awesome Great surprise exactly I mean give us For those of you who have never heard of Segmetrics um give us the quick Breakdown you know when you hear I feel Like the majority of folks that we talk To on this show our top of funnel and so To hear somebody describe what they do Specifically as middle of the funnel uh Is kind of fun and refreshing yeah so we Are a business Analytics tool we're very Similar to what you'd see in Google Analytics or Facebook analytics or Something like that we're measuring the Effect of your advertising and the Effect of your marketing on a end of Customer Journey dollar value so we're Able to say things like people who come In from Facebook are worth fifty dollars People come in from Google are worth Thirty dollars and what does that funnel Look like and that's what most people do That's the top of funnel and what we do Is we take that top of funnel stuff and Combine it with the things that they're Doing during the nurture sequence during

The sales call so people from Facebook Have a 30 chance of getting on a sales Call if they get on a sales call with Bob Bob has a 70 chance of closing it They get they're worth uh 300 for Everyone who talks to Bob from Facebook So you're able to see what is the happy Path that goes through your funnel and What in that funnel in that customer Journey makes people worth more money And what makes people worth less money You guys have a really cool I'm gonna I'm gonna share my screen real quick you Guys have really cool graphic on the Website that I feel like paint's a Pretty yeah that's a clear picture That's the money shot right there to be Honest Yeah that's pretty cool let me back you Up a little bit Keith Um yeah did you have an agency at some Point in your career yeah so I did the Agency work for about 10 years Um working specifically with info Products and SAS uh creators and Segmentrix was actually born out of our Needs as an agency because what was Happening is we were you know we were Doing all these very complicated funnels We had to export all this data from all These systems everything from fusionsoft Active campaign stripe Facebook blah Blah all these click datas giant pivot Tables right to find out what is the

Value of any step on that funnel for This customer segment and it took hours And we're like this is just data we have Access to all the data we should just be Able to get a computer to do this for us And that's where segmentress was kind of Born from and our clients started seeing It they were like hey can we get a login So we're like oh sure let us build a Login and then they start inviting their Friend and they were like hey Bob over Here wants to use this I'm like okay Let's add billing and That's how segmetrics came about Eventually it got bigger than the agency And then uh now we're a software company That's I love the story I think it's in My experience I feel like Reporting is sort of like this uh This thing we don't really want to talk A ton about in the agency world because It is so hard and it's kind of like I Feel like most agencies push it to the Point where they're getting enough Reporting where everyone feels kind of Comfortable and they're like cool don't Don't nobody touch it nobody look at it We're good we're gonna roll with this Yep because it is so darn complicated I Mean even at high level where we kind of Bring a lot of things into one place It's still really hard to get accurate Reporting from an ad all the way down to What you know the end result and you

Mentioned something I think is It sounds really obvious when I'm gonna Say this but like It's not just the ad to the conversion Right there's a lot of stuff in between And just because the ad started in Facebook that stuff that happens in Between is going to have a major impact On whether or not it converts exactly And especially I mean less so for Ecom But especially agencies anything with Deal pipelines so anyone using high Level it's there's so much that's Happening not on the web right there's Sales calls there's emails that they're Clicking and people think oh emails are On the web they're not right they're in A brow they're in a Um in Gmail or on your phone or some Other device like it's not part of Something that Facebook and all of them Can easily track so you need something That can really dial in natively to your CRM to something like high level and Read that data in and understand okay Where did this person come from Originally and what are they doing to Turn into a customer at the end And has this gotten more challenging for You guys after the iOS 14 update it was Interesting because it got a lot more Challenging for Facebook and a lot Easier for us Um

Yeah it was it was actually a huge Windfall for us uh we were everyone in The marketing industry was really scared Um but at the end of the day what Happened was Apple really screwed over Facebook and that's about it because our Tracking is separate from the main Facebook track we never trusted Facebook Tracking and so we always had our own Tracking on top of that to kind of say Okay Facebook says you got 800 people You only got 200 new ones in high level Obviously they're lying now let's figure Out what actually happened Um yeah and so we've NE we've never Trusted those web only especially Facebook numbers and one of the things That's very important for us is being Able for any report to drill down and Say okay this says we have 200 people Who click this ad show me them and click On a button and you get a list of all 200 people you're like okay there they Are Yeah and that's that's super valuable Because you know you were saying people Do with reports the bare minimum of what They need to do if you can't trust that Data you do less and less because you Don't want to do anything that really Rocks the boat because you might be Wrong and so being able to 100 trust That data super valuable especially when You're looking at something like click

Tracking and whatnot that is Honestly it's amazing that anything in a Browser works it's really Well totally a hundred percent and That's why you know it's it's great when You have a tool like high level because You can see on the back and the real Story Um but I'm I'm interested to learn a Little bit more about like technically How you guys make it happen do you do You like web hook do you guys to eat web Hooks that are coming out of different Stages in a pipeline or it depends on The system Um we do web hooks for some systems but What we have found is because we ingest So much data it doesn't make sense to do A one-off for web hook so we actually do Bulk game forms so every couple of hours We call into high level or stripe or Facebook or wherever and say Hey give us All the new data that came in and we get Ten thousand twenty thousand new uh rows Put them into our database for Processing and then at the same time We're tracking all the web visits and so We have all these Anonymous people Coming in we have user one user two user Three blah blah blah and as soon as They're identified by an email address Or clicking on a email that you sent Them or any of this other stuff or like Oh this person number 54321 who we've

Seen for six months this is actually Sarah because we see them in high level And then we connect all that data Together so you have not only the data From once you start seeing Sarah in high Level but also all that previous data as Well that we've kind of stitched back Together into there That's super cool And I mean we can talk more about the Integration later right you can go into Seg metrics and find high level and Turn it on I believe yep yeah exactly Pretty straightforward but I'm more Interested in talking about some of this Fun stuff that I love like the middle of The funnel right I don't think I'm Always really surprised at how little Time agencies put into the middle of the Funnel and optimizing for the middle of The funnel what does that look like in Your mind when when you say optimizing For the middle of the funnel I think It's a couple of things Um the obvious one that I always look at When I'm looking at middle of funnel the One that gets people to really Understand what I'm talking about at a Really high level is We are SAS company and when people sign Up for us they start a trial uh Sometimes they'll get on a sales call They'll get on a Kickstart call there's A number of things that are happening in

That flow before they become a customer And so if I'm using fake if I'm trying To optimize my Facebook ads I will say Hey Facebook anyone who signs up we want Them to be tracked as a as a conversion Right And so Facebook anytime someone signs up We track them as a conversion in Facebook and there we go we're off to Town except it doesn't really matter That they're in our CRM it doesn't Matter that they click sign up because They haven't started trial they haven't Gotten on a Kickstart they haven't paid Us any money that all happens further Down the funnel so I was talking with my Ads guy and he's like hey uh we're Getting like 30 leads right now from Facebook I'm like this is great thirty Dollar leads like we could we can pay For that they've ever really scale that To the Moon right and then I looked I Was like wait wait we didn't get 3 000 New trials this week what's going on and We saw what Facebook was seeing as a Conversion with someone putting in their Email address it was not starting a Trial so when we then filter down into Okay how many of those turned into a Trial it was more like fourth it was uh I think 800 per trial and like wait wait That's a completely different Conversation there like we can't scale That at all but what we're doing is

We're training Facebook to bring us crap Leads because we had what is that Something like two thousand three Thousand leads that never turned into a Trial that Facebook was saying yeah We're doing the right thing we're Sending you good people and they were Not and so what we need to start doing Is take that middle of funnel conversion Or that end to funnel conversion or even That Revenue over a lifetime and send That back into Facebook so we need to be Able to identify who are the where are The good campaigns who are the good People coming into our funnel send that Information back to Facebook so they Bring us more of those people and not People who are just kicking the tires or Signing up for a free PDF or any of that Kind of stuff It's the whole when you look at the Whole thing from a zoomed out view it's Really interesting right it's hard at Facebook because they're like you know Our pixel just got blown out of the Water by Apple Um We're doing our best here and you know Like you said at the top of the funnel It's working great right like you're Talent like we're seeing that you know That's happening and that's working Really well and then If you as a marketer do a good job

Further down the funnel of sending data Back They can know more right but and this is Actually interesting like we've been Having a lot of conversations with Facebook lately and they're making it Super clear that they need more data Back and they love high level because in Our workflow Builder you can use the Facebook conversion API action and you Can send data back at what I do any Point you want right and they're like Look how do we work together to get more People to do this Because when we get that data back we Can you know optimize and make things Even better but even if let's say Facebook's doing a good job top of Funnel I'm an awesome marketer I'm Sending data back in every way every Step along the way If I stink at what I'm as a marketer Doing in the middle of the funnel Right I'm going to skew what Facebook Thinks of the right people they sent and So it's a very complex chain when you go Beyond just that first lead magnet Conversion you know what I mean and yeah And I think it's it's very obvious I Think for people in sales or people in Info products or SAS or things that Naturally have long nurture sequences One of the craziest things we found out Is that you know Ecom you think of Ecom

As someone saw an ad and purchased the Average time from seeing an ad to Purchasing is actually 14 days for Ecom Which blew my mind like I was like wait That doesn't make any sense that goes Against everything that every econ Person has ever told me ever and as we As we were crunching all this data Through all of our our customers to kind Of prove that this was true I was buying An iPhone case and it took me eight days To buy the iPhone case because I I Looked for an iPhone case I clicked on An ad I saw what I wanted to get and I Was like oh I'm still busy I put it down And I came back eight days later and Bought in as we're seeing that data I'm Like oh I just did that myself And it became very obvious and if you're Just looking at that type of funnel if You're looking at those limited date Ranges you're like oh this person came In from a Google search I'm like well Not really I came in from an ad Converted from the Google search And that's Ecom that's still just that Plain top of funnel And that's what's crazy is it's so Complicated even at that top of funnel Which is the simplest part right and Then you get into like did they get on a Phone call who did they get on the phone Call with did they attend the webinar What webinar when did they leave the

Webinar like all of these little cohorts And touch points within there that Affect the revenue of someone and like How engaged they are that's so funny I I Have two Amazon tabs open right now that I know at some point will get closed Because I'll like Totally shut down my Chrome at some Point or whatever and so yeah it'll be You know I'll probably buy those two Things but it won't be today that's for Sure it'll probably be sometime next Week it's actually interesting do you Know cosum So late he's been doing a lot of Speaking he's spoke at CNC yes yes yes Yes yes yes so he's um they have a Really great Google ads uh Google paid Ads Um agency and they're at the Forefront I Think of experimenting with Google's AI Product called uh it'll come to me Anyway I saw in one of his talks he was Like you know how many touch points does It take to get somebody to buy something And most of the audience including me Said like seven I feel like seven was a Number that at some point got ingrained In the marketers sorry that as well yeah And he was like well Google's AI Actually Operates under the assumption that it's 500. like they won't give up on you Until they've made sure you've seen

Something 500 times Which is like pretty Illuminating right Like you know we as marketers maybe uh Give it two or three shots right I think A lot of us still strive to do seven but Now the reality is Google's like no it's Way more than seven it goes back to what We're talking about right the middle of The funnel And I think Most you know especially young marketers That learn how to run Facebook ads we Learned this lesson the hard way it was Like walking into a buzz saw I remember Clearly we were delivering Um six dollar Botox leads to a Med Spot And we we were like thought we were the Greatest Agency on Earth that they would Bow down and kiss our feet and I Remember hopping on a call and the owner Was Furious and he was just like none of These people have showed up none of them Have bought anything like these are Garbage and that was just such a big day In my career of like wait a minute How Can there be a disconnect like this and It was it's all because yeah top of the Funnel looked great but nothing was Happening Um in the middle to get them to the Bottom yeah and that's one of the things That I think is Interesting about man my camera's just Driving me nuts today

It's just not behaving at all Um one other thing that's interesting That we ran into as well is that it is So difficult for you to set up this Tracking and to send it back into Google And Facebook and everyone correctly Because one of the things that we did When we were testing out some of our Facebook ads is because it was really Hard we decided oh when someone fills Out the trial form we'll send that into Facebook as a conversion whatever right Well you know who fills out uh trial Forms a lot is credit card scammers and Every time a credit card scammer put one In it sent it back to Facebook said more Of these please yeah and we had we must Have had like ten thousand dollars in Scammed credit cards coming through us And fortunately we had things to stop it But it's like we just saw this ramp up Of credit card scammers and it's like Holy crap we were training Facebook to Send us bad people and we're we are Pretty we're marketers we've been doing This for years we're technologically Like Adept and we still made that Mistake it's a hundred percent it's Super hard Oh I mean we every day we work at it and I don't think it's a process that one Would ever say job done like you know The middle of the funnel is perfect Um but talk to me about how we can

Improve it um and I think to be a good Middle of the funnel marketer you do Have to dip into a bit of psychology Right like there's a lot of nuance and a Lot of human Based reactions going on after somebody You know opts in claims the lead magnet Whatever it is that they did to get in The funnel and this is what I think is The most important thing about trying to Optimize a funnel and really understand Your customer base which is focusing on What I call outliers right so when we Look at a funnel we're generally looking At conversion rate as we go down the Funnel how many visitors did we get how Many opt-ins did we get how many people Got onto the webinar how many people saw The sales page how many people converted At the end right right very simple flow But what we generally don't do is then Look at whenever we have a dip in Conversion when we say okay people Didn't get on the webinar why didn't They get on the webinar and in order to Understand that we have to start looking At outliers we need to start looking Beyond just okay we had a thousand People come in and only 500 got in the Webinar break it down by industry by What they opted in for where they came From and that's when you start to see Not just that top level number of 50 Gone the webinar but we start to say

Okay Copywriters are coming to the webinar Eighty percent of the time designers are Coming only 20 percent of the time Developers are coming 10 percent Well obviously if copywriters are coming To this webinar then we've done Something to make copywriters feel that This is for them and we've done Something to make designers and Developers think that it's not for them Right so what did we do what what can we Do to either change the webinar or Modify our messaging or something to get Those other audiences back or if we Don't want those audiences then we need To stop advertising to them and stop Bringing them in the funnel in the first Place but this is This is the middle of the funnel parts That start letting you be able to Optimize your marketing instead of just Looking at those top level kpis and this Is one of the issues that I have with Top level kpis which is that they kind Of hide all the stuff that makes you Able to Market like if I look at a 50 Conversion rate for my funnel I'm like This is great this is wonderful but then If I dive in and say Facebook ads Converted 100 and Google converts at Zero we suddenly have a big problem that I didn't know because I never decided to To dive in and so when you are

I really feel that there's two things You need to do one is when you're Looking at the kpis you look at that to Understand how things are going overall But you need to look at each step of Your funnel Through The Eyes of the People going for your funnel and say Like what types of people what cohorts Perform well who performs poorly and why What could we be doing that is chasing These people away and what are we doing That's drawing that is resonating with These types of people Yeah I agree I think one of the things That's I think an easy change to Implement is I always have a philosophy Of like overtag like tag people At any place that you can to distinguish Something that distinguishes them Because you'll never be in a scenario Where you're like man wasted so much Time tagging people right like but the Opposite I feel like you find yourself In all the time it's like shoot if I Could just filter these people by Something I could have so much more Insight into what actually is happening Here and so you know I think a lot of Hopefully I would bet a lot of listeners Right now probably aren't utilizing Funnels in high level or um I should say Pipelines to the full extent and I feel Like the combination of pipelines and Tags can really be an easy low-hanging

Fruit way of starting to get more Insights so that you can make more Decisions I loved your example right Because it's like Maybe in your example well shoot maybe We should just have two different types Of webinars one for these types of folks And one for these types of folks we Tweak the wording and now we'll improve The conversion on both of them right but Unless you can See what's going on you can't really Make any conclusions right exactly and That's that's the problem is that and I 100 agree with your tag for everything I Find anything that is that is a linchpin Right that is a point that people could Either do or not do that would affect Conversion like registering for a Webinar attending the webinar staying For more than 90 minutes buying from the Webinar like getting on a sales call Getting on a sales call with Bob or Sarah or John or whoever that is any of Those levers need to be tagged or have a Custom field or something put to them so That you can say this is the happy path And you can map it out and you can just Like say click click click here's how They flow through here's where all the People drop off here's where this cohort Does poorly here's where this court does Really well and and find that happy path Through the customer Journey

Um The Happy path The happy path is what is where we all Need to be so I I really like something else that you Said uh I can't remember exactly how you Said it but it made me think of Something that I try to do which is an Exercise that again would seem obvious Do it enough and and so I feel like most Of us don't which is if I were going Through this What would I think about what I'm seeing Right now or what I'm not seeing and What would be really great is if if Magically landed in my inbox at this Point in this process And for me it always I'm always like Things just jump out like oh it'd be Awesome if I got an email that was like I don't know whatever it's about because That would be really helpful at this Point because that's why I didn't move Forward right and so it seems obvious But can you relate to that of 100 and This is one reason why every quarter we Go through the onboarding process at Psych metrics ourselves and not just Like oh let's look at the numbers but we Actually sign up go through at click the Connections are like Oh that's oh that's I don't like that like or you know what Would be really good here is to have an Email that came in or like a pop-up from Our account manager whoever that is

Right like what are the things that Could make this really good and this is One of the things that I see kind of as A problem with marketers because we all Want a silver bullet we all want to like Have a tool tell us okay you need to go Do this and then you'll make a billion Dollars right that would be great that'd Be wonderful but it's not realistic and With all the AI everyone's like oh you Need to tell me what I need to do next For my marketing like it's not that's The art that's the art of marketing what We can provide and what we do provide is Showing you exactly what type of people Are performing well what cohorts what Actions what touch points do well and do Poorly but then you have to make that Decision about what you're going to do About that and that's to me that's also The fun part of marketing right it's Diving in getting my hands dirty of like Okay let's go through this sign up flow Let's go through everything and see Exactly what's going on and then taking That and turning it into something that Makes our customers happy A hundred percent and I mean if you're Listening I hope you're thinking as Always with two frames of mind right one Is for your own business your agency and You know you can go super deep with your Own company right like I feel like one Of the challenges of being an agency

Working with clients is it's often tough To go really deep into the psychology of Why a client's funnel isn't performing Um you know when they're only paying you A thousand dollars a month or something Like that And um don't worry kids will be right Back there and so what's going on with This thing And that's why I think understandably a Lot of us you know if a client campaign Is performing at let's call it 80 or a B Plus good enough they're happy they're Going to keep paying you know let's Package that up and moving on to the Next one Um but again I'm always shocked at like Low hanging fruit that can be done for Clients even and like you said I agree I Think it's the creative fun side of Agency marketing where you get to create Those assets that people get in the Middle of the funnel right like there's So much creative I I I always say Someone can make a really great business Just focusing on like nurture campaigns Like delivered you know what's the Industry okay great like here's a Year's Worth of nurture content broken up in Text messages and email form and maybe Some voicemail audio files or whatever It may be Um because I'm always shocked at like How little agencies are doing in between

Offer claim and hey you know buy or book It drives me batty like honestly because I think it was Bane and Company said Like it is 70 times easier to convert Someone that's already paid you once Than it is to bring in a new customer And yet all these systems are built for Acquiring new customers acquiring new Sales no very few people focus on Nurture of recurring customers in Recurring revenue and upsells and even If you get something like a subscription Plan of like how do we increase that Average order value over time and it's So freaking valuable and it's easy money If you focus on a nurture campaign and If you take the time and figure out what It is your customers really want and Then give it to them do you have any Tips for people who are like okay I Admit I'm not doing a great job in this Area but how I'm I'm at writer's block Like what where do I come up with ideas To create this content so there's a Bunch of good ones Um one is especially for agencies that I it seems so dorky to me I every time I've done it I've like this is so dorky And everyone loves it I just do a Roundup email I or I used to when I did The agency I did a Roundup email every Week or every two weeks and I was like This is what's going on in the industry It's not anything specific to you or

Your uh account or anything but this is What's going on in marketing recently And suddenly I'm the expert teaching Them like I'm already the expert because I'm I'm the agency they're working with But I'm letting them know what's going On just in the world not just with their Account and nine times out of ten what Happened people would respond to me it's Like hey that's a really important thing Are we affected by that do we need to Look at this hey can we build something Out like that and it's like oh I just Make myself an extra twenty thousand Dollars from this email because now I Have a bunch of people who want to do The same thing that I just happen to be Talking about in this email Um Very simple thing to do I I love that One and I I called this like um content DJing right you're just sort of DJing The content of the news And hopefully you know putting your Slight little spin on it but like you Said so frequently it leads to replies Asking wait could you do that for us Right yeah I could it's you know we Don't have like a standard package for That but we could totally do it if you Would like me to work up an invoice or Whatever an estimate for you Um and I think this translates to you Know not just your own agency's

Marketing for yourself but for your Clients especially if you Niche right I Feel like this is one of the big Benefits of working within a particular Industry is you can then stay on top of The trends of that industry and DJ the Content from the latest happenings in The news and this kind of stuff and um And yeah you know imagine I could Imagine right now I'm sure somebody just Crushed Black Friday right and then you Write a piece about that so and so just Did two million dollars and Black Friday Was what they did yep But hey the holidays aren't over right So I would imagine a bunch of people are Going to put their hand up and be like Your thing reminded me we'd love to do a Gift certificate campaign could you do That for us right and that's just money In the bank and it also gets over I Think one of the Hang-Ups a lot of Agencies have where they don't want to Be strong Sellers and turn off to their Existing clients right like they can be Strong sellers to new clients they're They're very good at pitching in class But with an existing client sometimes a Lot of agencies are very like they don't Want to send out like hey are you doing Coupons you should totally do coupons we Can do all the coupons for you because It feels so pushy but this is something That is

It it's Um kind of like priming the pump right So you're sending information over that You're not saying hey we can do this You're giving the client ideas that they Can then bring back to you as if it was Their own idea when actually it was Yours Totally How about the creative side of it have You had any resources in your uh Journey That you really loved books or talks or People that you might follow to help get Better at the creative side of nurture Marketing you're bad at that Um I I have not done as much recently as I Really should Um copywise I mainly follow copy hackers I absolutely love them Um I swear this camera it's just like Every 10 seconds Um ramit Sadie I still believe I used to Work with him and he still has some of The best most engaging copy I have ever Read Sadie at I will teach okay he is he's Just a master he writes 60 page sales Letters and people read the whole dang Thing like they're just so well crafted He really Yeah he talking about like middle of Funnel and emotional Journeys he's very Good at hooking people in and underst

Like identifying a pain point and then Taking that pain point out through an Entire conversation he's amazingly good At that and it's honestly it's like Reading almost like a Malcolm Gladwell Book where you're just like so engrossed In the story and the flow that you'll Just believe anything that that goes Through the whole thing it's so well Done highly recommend checking his stuff Out um but him and copy hackers I think Are probably two of the the big ones as Far as uh content that I watch uh and Read recently cool I appreciate those Recommendations question for you are you Guys experimenting or already up and Running with um YouTube ads I feel like YouTube ads are an incredible Opportunity to do more creative Storytelling nurturing uh for the middle Of the funnel that we're certainly going To start ramping up ourselves at a high Level very much so so I really like YouTube the pro problem with YouTube Videos up until now is that they require Creating a video and that's been really Tough for us uh especially with my Camera cutting out every 12 seconds for Some unknown reason Um but we have actually started putting Together a video production pipeline we Were kind of talking about before the Call about using dscript Um I got an amazing recommendation from

A video editor I know that he uses Keynote and we use canva to create B-roll so you know when you have all the Animations and stuff you want and it's Like doing that in After Effects or all These motion things is really difficult You can just put it in keynote or canva You can export it as a video toss it Straight into dscript and then use it as Interstellar through the through the Video and it's been blowing my mind like What took us Probably like three days before now Takes me 20 minutes to make and so it's Really upped the amount of video we can Create And the the quality of that video so We're really trying to push hard on YouTube and tick tock tick tock's the Other one that I Hated for so long I still don't use it Personally but man it is effective like Yeah no I agree and it's you know we Don't really have a choice anymore right Because now reels are are you know Facebook and Instagram shifted to all Real so it's yeah it's really Interesting right because now we're We're thinking about things it's like Okay well what's the the long form of That and then what's like the super Short Tick Tock story of that same story Or version of that same story and it's It's a whole new sort of

Same with YouTube shorts which I don't Think is as popular but one of the Things that we've seen Um so I use dscript to edit everything Now and within dscript you can highlight Like poll quotes and stuff and then Click export and automatically export Them to tick tock videos and like in That square shape and everything it's Like it is so I'll do a 20 minute uh 30 Minute lesson and then cut it up into The most valuable Parts automatically Export those and then have someone have The media manager upload them into YouTube and everything and it's it's Just working great like I was excited to Hear when you mentioned before we Started recording that you're using Dscript or I call it the script I don't Know which one I don't know what's I Don't know what's correct but it's Really fun I've been having a lot of fun With it myself and I'm just starting Just getting started but I love that Feature you mentioned they call like They're like the audiograms I guess like Yeah you can basically just like pick a Section and then say I want it like for Social and it makes it like a cool you Know like text on the screen animated Thing happening yeah and I found out you Can design it for each of the uh visuals For each one and then export them all at Once I know for example if I want it um

Oh really blank yeah if I want it full Length it'll have the audiogram if it's Just Square it will only have the text And like I can kind of move stuff around So that it's cropped correctly for each Of the video formats hmm that's cool I'll have to try to get them on the show Because I feel like Um if you've never tried it before Editing video via editing the text is Like sounds super strange but it's Actually incredible it's great like Removing a single word or like even Moving blocks around it's like oh I Wanted to do this section first just Copy paste the whole thing and move it Over yeah it's it's honestly been a game Changer for me Yeah it's really interesting I I think Scaling video for clients is going to be Something that I think we're going to See a lot more people figure out Probably in 2023 I think that's always Been a real challenge is like how do you Get your clients to do anything with Video Yeah but I think the tools are getting So good that you could probably just do It for them at this point if you if you Had a good process down but I haven't Played around with this but I know that They have a um an AI voice thing so you Get someone you record your own voice Into there and then you can type and it

Will say it in your voice like I haven't Played around with it but I'm just Imagining a day where it's like you tell Your client hey talk into this for like 10 minutes and then you write out all These scripts it's like now you're Writing be crazy totally I I have used it a couple of times I Think for me it's been like 50 50 half The time it sounds awkward and the other Half it's close enough where you can run With it but obviously it's only going to Get better and I think I only read like The two minute training script and not The 10 or whatever so I could probably Do a better job of that but um so I mean Speaking of 2023 what what do you guys Have on the horizon what are you guys Excited about next year yeah lots of Stuff so one of the biggest kind of Things that we have been working towards Is what we call segmetrics Essentials And what it is is one of the big pieces Of feedback and I guess complaints that We get is that segmetrics has a learning Curve to start to use because it's a Powerful piece of business intelligence Software you can relate to that yeah Exactly and we've gotten away with it Through kickstarts and like training Calls we get on call with every single Person who signs up and really hand Holding and VIP stuff but there's people Who don't want all that power they just

Want to log in and they want the most Important things for their setup for Their audience and for their um funnels That they have set up so what we have Been building out is essentially kind of An algorithm based reporting tool where When you sign up it looks at what do you What CRM are using what's uh what Payment Gateway you're using what ads You're using and then you answer a few Questions like how are you tracking People through a funnel what are your Biggest segments blah blah blah how are You tracking those segments Um and then it builds out I think we Have eight at launch different reports That tell you the most important things That you need to be looking at for your Business and it's like okay how long do Your Ecom how long does it take not just From purchase to uh or from sign up to Purchase but from first click to Purchase what's that average order value How long does it take for someone to be Worth how how much does someone increase In value over time that kind of stuff so All of this stuff that's very important For your specific business we're Building the cost customized reports to Automatically fill in all that data for You right away so you can just log in Look at your stuff see what you need to Do and then if you want to go deeper in Click on that report go into the

Business intelligence side which we have Now and really dive deep into it but it Gives people An easier way to get into segmetrics and Understand all the power there without Having to do everything themselves That's pretty interesting do you guys Have uh like a university or a training Series because I feel like a lot of Folks were probably You know uh I'd probably make the assumption that a Lot of folks segmenting in general is New you know it's just the concept yeah There's I think people think about it a Lot but don't really know like what they Would segment on and how to get how to Get started and so we do have a lot of Uh courses and stuff that we do teach About that we do uh every two weeks we Do webinars training webinars and stuff Like that for Um our list lots of Q and A's and stuff Like that because really that is the Most important part is how do you start To understand your funnel how do you Optimize your funnel and overall it's Really how do you ask good questions Like the I think the core of improving Your funnel and your marketing is like Asking the good questions so that you Can get a solid answer and then Optimizing towards that oh I love people Yeah a lot of people don't know what

They want to know they want they they Come in and say I want to know what's my Best ad it's like what does that mean Like I don't know the best one I'm like Well let's let's let's go through that a Little bit more and let's figure out What best means for you because it best Means something different for everyone Else That's really interesting and I feel Like that triggered a memory of I feel Like a big leap we took at our agency Was when we we focused in The Med Spa Like we niched further down and into That specific industry and we Kind of got into segmenting and we had a Really great client who kind of we Worked through this with And by doing that exercise and adding That step in the funnel right because we Were very focused Claim book claim an Offer book the appointment or book The Consultation or the whatever and You know this client really helped us Like no I don't want just everyone Booking you know like I want certain Type or segment of these leads to book And so once we build out that step in The funnel it was really eye-opening And then it led to way better sales Conversations Um with future clients because it was Like okay great now tell me do you guys Do this or this and they're like oh we

We do that and then like okay cool and Then what you know do you guys do what Type of body sculpting do you do and you Know Insurance like these key questions That tell your prospective client that You know the industry inside and out Right and that they are like oh wow I Didn't even think to kind of filter the Way that you're talking about doing Right now you know what I mean that Would lead to oh that's great you mean The only people that I would actually Waste time you know not waste spend time Talking to are you know people who meet These criteria not waste time like I do Now with people who are never gonna Qualify and so I feel like that was a Big step for us you know getting to that Point yeah very much so and I think it's Something that at the beginning when You're starting that process you don't Really think about because you just want Everyone in but as you start to realize Like oh we don't want to work with Anyone who has less than 10 people in Their company because it's not going to Be worth it we don't want any we don't Want to work with anyone who doesn't Have a nurture sequence already because We have nothing to optimize right Um you start to understand what are the Segments what are the questions that you Need to ask on that intake form on that Outreach In Those ads even and try to

Push that as far up the funnel as Possible so you're not even marketing to People who don't fit that uh specific Segment that you want but in order to Find that segment you have to have a Tool that lets you be able to see who is Converting the best we have we actually Did this recently we thought Ecom was Our biggest best customer Um they we thought they made up 80 Percent Um especially during covid they were Exploding and we did a lot of analysis And Ecom is not our best customer info Products and SAS are our best customers Ecom we have a lot of but for dollar to Dollar amount after six months info Product and sash just beat them hand Candidly and the reason is is because Ecom is such a low margin industry and During covet it was really going up but Then covet kind of slowed down Drop Shipping got more difficult and the Company's folded and our Ecom customers Nine times out of ten the reason they Cancel is like we're not in business Anymore Yeah You know I feel like Twitter two years Ago it was just all Ecom like yeah just Drop ship something or you know import Something and sell it on Shopify and now I feel like hardly hear people talking About it at all anymore it's all about

Brand building now and so it was Interesting because a lot of the Ecom Features like we focus on middle of Funnel and drop shippers do not want Middle of funnel because they have one Product and they're Drop Shipping and They're done and now the Ecom customers We have are very focused on middle of Funnel they're focused on building a Brand on getting customers to purchase Again and again about building something Sustainable and so the Ecom customers we Have now after that whole drop ship are Doing much better with segmetrics and Are becoming more valuable over time Because they're focusing on things that Are building a business instead of Essentially just okay how do we make as Much money as humanly possible and then Shut it down we had one guy he uh he had Four businesses with with us in in order So he had one it uh it stopped being Profitable so he shut it down started up Another one shut it down started up Enough but they were all drop ship and He was like well this product stopped Being Um popular so I stopped selling it and Now I'm selling this one right it was Crazy it was mind-blowing so you just Made a really interesting point right And I think Again this is another one that seems Obvious but didn't dawn on me until

Pretty far into my career as a marketer We think of a funnel as top down right And the middle of the funnel is the Middle and just like I said we were very Focused on claim something for free now You're in the top and then we're gonna Nurture you into booking and then buying But once you buy You you actually get re-injected into The middle of the funnel like you should Right and so I think what you're you've Talked about several times in this Episode is middle of the funnel as being People who've already purchased once Let's get them to purchase again right And you know we talk about this as Reactivation a lot right And and so I think that visual if you're Listening on podcasts you can't see what I'm doing with my hands but hopefully I'm doing a good enough job describing This when someone gets to the bottom of The funnel they actually loop around to The middle right and I think a lot of People just let them sit there but what We're talking about is having great Nurture in place to get them through the Bottom again and then it becomes like a Loop through the middle to the bottom And that's really what you want right And I think you know We as an agency and and I've seen this a Lot is marketers as they progress to Their journey start to understand

It's like the Lost leader at like a a Brick and mortar store right A lot of Times we would run ads for something That you know wasn't super profitable For the client but we had a really solid Reactivation plan to get people up sold Into the higher stuff and that can work Very very well I think a lot of Marketers fail because they try to go They tell they ask their client what What do you want Oh I want you know more Of my best-selling thing right right and That can be kind of hard right a lot of No one's just gonna show up and buy that Off Facebook so I feel like the strategy Of lower ticket get them in and then do A really good job of looping them back Through is something that um probably Takes a lot of time for marketers to Learn but is really what we're talking About is being most powerful yeah and It's the um I I can't remember what the Psychological term is I think it's the Power of yes Um but it's the idea of once you've said Yes to something once it's much easier To say to it it again even if the first Thing is really small because you're Already in a guest mode so it's like oh I'm going to get a book shipped to me For free plus shipping so it's only a Dollar yes oh I can spend 20 more Dollars to get this okay yes like it's a Much easier conversation than when you

First start because you've already been Convinced to start that process sure and That's it's just super valuable and that Yeah and you've already seen a lot along The way right oh it showed up with a Funnel voucher and the book was pretty Good and like they sent me a voicemail Letting me know that I could send it Back if I didn't like it or whatever it Just yeah so I think you know that That's probably a good lesson that we Just Unearthed here if you're young in Your journey it's not always wise to Just try to go right at the highest Ticket juiciest thing that your client Wants to sell oftentimes you need to Bring people into the funnel with a Lower ticket easier sell but have a Really good strategy of working them up To that uh that stuff that your clients Really want to see moving definitely Definitely Keith thank you so much for Coming on uh the website is but you mentioned that you Guys do a lot of webinars and training And stuff where should somebody go if They want to join your list is that can They join if they're not customers yeah Definitely so you can go to and join there or you can Go to uh there's also a List there that's our University page it Uh has all of our courses that you can

Watch and then that also signs you up For the newsletter to see uh our weekly Webinars Awesome and you you sort of tease Something new you guys have that new Essentials program Um what's your timeline what are you Guys shooting for to get that out we are Shooting second week of January knock on Wood so we'll see how that goes it's a It's a big process uh there's a lot of Moving Parts but I think we're on track To get it done so I'm very excited Cool awesome well guys if You guys are interested in checking it Out they do have a high level Integration uh a lot of good training Materials and definitely I would hop on That list if you're interested in Joining any of their upcoming webinars Keith thanks so much for dropping by Chase thanks so much for having me man Super fun hope to see you again soon Thank you guys for watching we'll see in The next one [Music]

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