Scaling With Systems With John Jantsch

Productizing your offerings uh getting Really good at them actually makes the Competition irrelevant because you no Longer can be compared to what everybody Else is selling because everybody else Is selling whatever the client thinks They need and here's the uh here's the Hot tip of our interview clients have no Idea what they need our job is to tell Them what they need and not react to What they think they need Hi everyone and welcome to another Episode of the high level Spotlight Sessions where we showcase awesome Marketers doing awesome marketing today I'm excited to be joined once again by John Jantz he's the founder CEO of duct Tape marketing John thank you so much For coming on the show thanks for having Me back it's always great to visit with You I'm happy to have you back in the new Year Um I think it's great that we're kicking Off the new year with a very important Topic which is how to avoid what I used To call scaling sideways yeah like the Agency that um that we built was very Much a traditional agency we were doing Websites SEO paid ads the whole thing But it was very clear that every x Amount of clients we added we needed to Add another project manager maybe one or Two other team members and I remember

Lots of conversations where I was like I Feel like we're scaling sideways the Revenue top line revenue is going up but Expenses are going up faster Yeah and it's really unfortunate I mean We run into a lot of agencies where you They they figure out how to get clients Obviously that's job number one right When you started they figure out how to Get those clients and then you know it's Still struggling they're still put in a Lot of hours but then it gets worse like You said that you know I've I I've heard It countless times you know agency Owners saying I feel like I'm working For my employees Um you know as opposed to uh you know Building this business that scales that I make more money maybe I have have more Free time so you know that's something That that we've uh we started addressing Years ago and it really was partly Because I just didn't want to have a Bunch of employees you know I figured Out this system this approach I called Duct tape marketing Um and it you know it really started uh You know I started talking about it Writing about it and You know it was a fairly unique Approach At the time 15 years ago for working how To work with small business owners uh we Didn't have great tools like high level You know at the time uh so we were you

Know I was really putting together kind Of my own approach that that Allowed me to kind of stay sane you know I I was like a lot of people I had Worked at a traditional Agency for five Years I went out there and hustled work And thought that's how you do it but I Was like I can't make any money doing This Um you know they don't have budgets and I can't charge enough and so I got to Figure something out so I just said I'm Going to create a I'm going to turn Marketing Services into a product is how I talk about it and I'm going to walk Into a business and say look here's what I'm going to do here's what you're going To do here are the results we hope to Get here's what it costs you want it or Not and it But it was really an attempt to solve What was a frustration for me and it Turns out it actually tapped into what Is still and maybe increasingly one of The greatest frustrations for small Business owners you know not only do we As agencies have to figure out how to Serve them Um it's really gotten harder for them to Buy what we sell because everybody is Selling a piece of the puzzle Everybody's selling the idea of the week So they don't know what to do or or what To you know trust so somebody who walked

In It said marketing is a system we're Going to install a system Um it's going to start with strategy uh Before we decide what tactics you know It's kind of music to their ears and it Really allowed me to build a full Practice that was something that I could Repeat that was very profitable because I was selling a result uh now and Ultimately Um led to to other agencies saying we Want to figure that out too can can we License that can we buy that can we join Um and so about 10 or 12 years ago I Created the duct tape marketing Consultant Network that you know we Actually have called it consultant Network now we have you know fractional CMOS we people we have agencies we have Strategists we have coaches uh but but Ultimately it's people that want to have A profitable way to work with small Businesses or to work with you know very Large businesses uh by providing Marketing services in a way that allows Them to scale without just adding tens Of thousands of employees without you Know having to just work hundreds and Hundreds of hours a week in order to Make a living I'm really curious let me ask you this Question because I feel like this is a Conversation

We Didn't have enough or maybe never Concluded when we were building our Agency and you sort of mentioned I never Wanted to have a gigantic company yeah I Feel like most of us get into this world This game with just let's go Build It Up Sure and never stop and we don't say Well how big do I want it and what do I Mean by big What is your take on that like what's Your ideal you know well I guess it's Different for everyone but do you help Folks even think about that like you Know what are you trying to do here yeah Absolutely and frankly it starts with Uh you know we have a lot of people that Join us that are starting a business I Mean they look at us as a a way to get Started faster right I don't have to Recreate the wheel you give me all kinds Of tools so we have a lot of people that Are in total startup mode And one of the things we have to figure Out with them is you know just what you Said where do they want to go maybe a Year or three years from now uh because They a lot of times what happens is we Get stuck in this oh I see what Everybody else is doing they're building Funnels they're doing outbound lead Generation they're doing all this stuff To get hundreds and thousands of people On their mailing list but I really only

Want five clients because that'd be Enough for me right and all of a sudden It's like well wait a minute go talk to Your five closest friends then don't Build all that other crap you know People I don't even need a website yet Right yeah um so you're absolutely right That it you know start with what's my Objective and then I can actually start Saying okay then for this quarter my Three priorities should be this Um and that's you know that thinking Um really in some ways relieves a lot of The pressure of oh I just I have to I See what everybody else is doing or I See what everybody else says you have to Do to build an agency so I need to run Out and do that and what they end up Doing is wasting about 80 percent of Their time good point so before we get Into some of the sort of the tactics and Decisions you've made in order to build A scalable system what is the goal of Your system when we talk about Um profit margin sure so you want you You want profit margin for the clients Who are helping or profit margin for the Agency for the agency what would you say Should be a Target I for for me it's Always been 70 wow which is huge right Um much higher than I think most people Target in the agency world yeah I I just I think it's possible because of and it It probably wasn't always it's just

Getting more possible because of the Tools we have I mean We're writing most of our very elaborate Content Now using AI Um and using you know automation tools That that really you know take a lot of The actual work and labor you know away From or or you know allows you to move a Lot of it you know down to somebody who You know doesn't have to be that Experience that doesn't really have to Know all the ins and outs of SEO but can Now be taught to use a tool to write Metadata Um better than I could and I've been Doing for 30 years you know so so that's Really why I think those profit margins Are available That's super interesting and I think It's very in line with what we're doing At high level right we had this Conversation before which is hey There's a bunch of these automated Features that you can just drop on a Client day one with high level and Software you know it doesn't get more Scalable than that so that really if you Tie it in with agency Revenue Traditionally it will definitely skew Your profit margin in the right Direction we kind of look at it as you Should probably keep them separate but I Know that you come from the traditional Agency world so for you to say that you

Can pull off traditional agency services That are 70 profit margin and you've Been doing this for a while now right How many you guys have worked with Probably thousands of agencies at this Point absolutely and I mean literally 30 Years so I'm over actually I'm coming up on 40 Years of doing this Wow that's amazing um yeah so and and I'll give you an example perfect example Using high level uh because I'm here to Pimp high level that's my whole job Just kidding but checks in the mail John But we actually are taking things like Scheduling Um you know appointments of technicians Right for a client a remodeling Contractor and we're actually teaching Them how to do it and then they're doing All the work and then we're charging Them for it That's right that's awesome works right Like once you figure out how to use it You got to pay the people who own it Exactly so I mean that's that's you know That kind of thing was it it maybe it Was available but it certainly didn't Occur to us that that was an option you Know and so doing more and more things Like that using some of the AI tools Which are you know I'm almost embarrassed but you know it Writes some pretty good stuff I I was I had the same sort of uh

Difficult moment of of being humbled by This gets you more than halfway there I Would say you know it definitely Gets You Through writer's block and in the Times I've played with it I'll give you A perfect example of a tactic that we've Been employing for many years now uh we Call them Hub Pages a lot of people have Other names for them but essentially you Know the the idea of blogging is no Longer right I mean blogs still exist But the the you know the the Origin of blogging was that I was a guy Who had a you know a log of you know Content that I was going to put out There on a daily basis and people were Going to come and see what I was singing Today so everybody has now a Blog you Know on their website but nobody wants To read a Blog I mean what they want is To find useful information organized in A way that it makes sense so if I'm a Non-profit agency and I'm look talking To Outsource accounting I want to find The Ultimate Guide to non-profit Accounting Outsourcing your non-profit Accounting or something so it's Essentially a bunch of blog posts that Are now organized as a guide we don't Call it a Blog right so so we call those Hub Pages we build them for all of our Clients and you know they may be 30 or 40 blog posts that over time now are all Linked together but they all have a nice

Kind of table of contents sort of Launching off you know page and so all Of a sudden you know Google goes yeah That's good content we're going to Reward you for it but but ultimately the Visitor you know looks at that content As like okay this is what I needed I'm This is like a whole education you know On this topic I'm going to click on this I'm going to bookmark this I'm going to Share this I'm going to come back to it Right so so we build those they you know The fair amount of work it might be 20 Or 30 blog posts that will need to be Written in that page you know designed And first you've got to start with like What should the guide be you know how do You outline it how do you you know what Are the subtopics right so a fair amount Of work we would charge Typically four or five thousand dollars To do this uh for for a client and that That would also Um generally speaking they had a little Bit of the right content so some of it Would just be hey I'll take some of this yeah so correct Me if I'm wrong but hearing you describe That it is very interesting to me Because Blogging as a service is something a lot Of agencies provide it's very vague Often underperforms clients don't see The value in it after very long Etc

Switching around to the concept of a hub Yes especially if you layer on let's say I've chosen a niche right Where my mind is going is okay every Med Spa should have a hub of content that Addresses these questions that every Person your potential client has you Don't have that on your website yet you Have one or two articles that have Pieces of this content it's not Correctly organized Do you agree with me client you should Have a hub of this content you do okay Great here's what we charge for it would You like us to create that for you and a Lot of it applies for any Med Spa but we Want your individual voice woven in at These points and now you have a unique Product at a set price it's it's exactly Our model is what we've done is we've Created products strategy first is the First thing that somebody buys from us They if somebody wants to work with us They come to us and say I want a website You're right you need a website but We're going to start with the Strategic View it's like that's how you work with Us Um and what it does is it allows us to Establish a price Um but the beauty of it is uh we get Better at it we get faster at it we get We know what works we know that it's Going to deliver results so we literally

Then start increasing our price for it And that's really how we look at our Model is we build repeatable race Engines and then we sell them for more Um and make more every you know pretty Much every time we do one because we get Better at it we get process around it we We're able to delegate you know to A Somebody who doesn't have I'm trying to Think of a way to not be insulting you Know but to somebody who doesn't have You know a high level experience because They don't need to now you know we've Created a Playbook uh for them so that's The point and I think if you're young in Your agency Journey here we just Illustrated an incredible example of the Way things that we used to do things That led to scaling sideways yeah versus The way that you could turn it into a Very productized scalable offering Because again once you know And you can even use AI nowadays I used To say you got to be in the industry to Figure out all these things that need to Be written about now you can go to the The chat GPT or whatever and say what Are the top 20 questions that people Have about Botox or whatever and it'll Spit them out for you and there's your Framework but I I think that to me is Very scalable hey we're the industry Experts we know every Med Spa gets asked

These 30 questions you should have a hub Of content that addresses them it's Going to convert people into hot leads It costs as much money do you want it And and the beauty is they're still Getting the end result it doesn't really Matter that's where I think a lot of People get tripped up it's like I have To like if this only takes me an hour I Can only charge X for it no if this Produces an amazing result you can Charge whatever you want for it and That's I think where people get tripped Up but that's how and that that Illustrates the need to be a part of a Network right because you could go Create it but you won't if you haven't Been in the industry doing it for a While you won't know the true value of What that's right that's right that's Right I mean we I will say that we have We have folks that join our Network that Have been doing it they figured out how To get clients you know they've got a Decent business they're all under Charging every single one of them Because they kind of have that mentality Of What does a client need okay now they Have to we have to figure out how much Output that's gonna or you know take to Produce and then there's like the Competitive environment Productizing your offerings uh getting

Really good at them actually makes the Competition irrelevant uh because you no Longer can be compared to what everybody Else is something because everybody else Is selling whatever the client thinks They need and here's the uh here's the Hot tip of our interview clients have no Idea what they need our job is to tell Them what they need and not react to What they think they need a hundred Percent and I think again to come back To the marriage of The ideas and the systems you guys have Built with a tool like high level you Throw the chat widget on that content Hub and as people are going through it They're going to ask additional Questions hey guess what that means I'm A hot lead right I'm interested I'm Digesting this content and I'm asking Questions you're charging for that Software that's automatically running Itself In addition to the the content Hub Project that you delivered as a product Um very scalable combination of of Offerings right there I'll tell you another you know real key To what we do that I think is counter to What a lot of the market does is you Already mentioned that you know Everybody starts with strategy first It's a uh 30 to 45 day engagement has a Set with you guys mostly we did not

Start no strategy yeah well or they do It but they just don't charge for it Because you can't do anything else Without doing some amount of it but Again ours is a very like here's the Price here's what we're going to do Here's what you're going to do here's What you're going to get you know at the End of this and you know what a lot of People do is they go in and try to sell A long-term retainer which I get it I'm A huge fan of retainers we've done it For years but I think the mistake is If you go in and you're basically Promising a bunch of tactics on a Long-term retainer you're a vendor uh You're you're there like fixing stuff That you know they say needs fixed right We go in and do this at the strategy Engagement first off it's like you buy This piece you're not committing a year You're not committing you know 100 000 You're buying this for you know X price Um at the end of it what it does is it Turns us into a trusted advisor Um and and at that point they're like What do I do to get all this stuff that You've proposed done now Um and you know let's let's get rolling Um whatever you say I mean you can screw It up but you buy yourself six months of Them thinking you know you're a genius Because nobody else has asked them the Stuff you're asking them nobody else has

Asked them to focus on what you're Asking them to focus on nobody else has Told them you don't need to be doing These four things over here because this Is you know these are the important Things based on your business based on You know what we developed as a strategy And so that's the part I love it it Allows us to charge much more but it Also gives us a relationship that is so Different than a lot of people have with Their clients So now I mean this is my turn to sort of Show duct tape marketing because this Kind of stuff you can't do if you don't Have an experience or somebody showing You what to do right because if I'm new And I'm hearing you say this I'm hearing Okay I'm gonna charge them to sit down And let them tell me what they think They need yeah which is probably the Exact opposite of what you teach as the Strategy session right you bet and I'm Gonna go out on a limb and say the Questions that you ask in the in that Phase Tie to defined products that you already Have waiting in the wings It's a sad reality in some cases if you Got into this business because you Wanted to do bespoke creative work but 80 of our clients need 80 percent of the Same thing yeah I think when we come to That realization

Um I think it gets a lot easier to say Oh this is not cookie cutter this is Just the right offering for that yeah a Hundred percent and we we just talked About that right like right I've got a Content Hub that'll work for any Med Spa But I do want you to put your individual Thoughts and Flair into it and now it is A unique thing Yeah and and that's one of the beauties Of doing this strategy work is we find Out what their superpower is uh we find Out what they should be leaning into Um that that is the real reason that Their clients love them Um and that's the part that's the extra Special sauce you know that you put then Into like you said the the sort of TurnKey uh offerings Quote unquote traditional agency Services Um that you think just don't scale and Should be avoided or that Sure it don't work anymore and should be Avoided well it's not it's not the Service itself everybody needs a website Everybody needs a website right that's The Hub of business today But if we're just offering website Services we're competing with the guy on Fiverr and we're you know and so that's The it's really more the way that they Are offered if they're offered as a Stand-alone service you know it's a race

To the bottom today and so you know That's why it's really got to be I mean People pay for thinking people pay for Strategy people pay for Innovation so if You the service that you're offering Isn't somehow the the leading head of That has to somehow be thinking and Strategy and Innovation Um or you're really just competing with The 10 an hour folks Um yeah and I think that again I'm sure You guys have sort of a predefined way Of doing this but I From my own perspective 100 agree I say This all the time you would be in 2023 A complete fool to just go purchase a Website the way that we used to sell Them sure it's a one-off project it's Going to cost you whatever 8 000 bucks It'll be done in six weeks Um and then good luck right you you need A a system is what you need sure a Website is part of it but you know it Should be doing things for you Generating leads and then where you're Going to put those leads right like Right right you know and now we're we're Back to Shilling high level Um well it's funny though I mean I still Run across uh businesses today that have A web designer an SEO person a Content Person a social media person those People are not talking to each other Nobody's orchestrating what they're

Doing I don't know how they do anything You know effectively in that and I think To your point you know the website is is Part of the customer Journey Um it is not you know a brochure I know People have said that for 10 15 years But I think it's become it's such a Critical part of the customer Journey uh That it has to be thought of as you know How do we guide people you know all the Way from getting to know about us to Wanting to you know shout from the Rooftops about how great we are you know That's how deep the you know the Integration has to be in all of your Thinking and decision making you know on Something like a tactic like your Website It's Funny you live and learn right and I Agree with your statement about you know If you came into this because you wanted To create the most bespoke beautiful Websites or social media content or Whatever you're probably going to face The harsh reality at some point Um but looking back that's kind of what We tried to do right every client was a Unique project and this and that and you Know we learned it the hard way and we Got better at it and then to be honest When I left to join the team at high Level my replacement did such a better Job of saying you know we need to cut

These things productize this up this is All we do yeah we used to compete Against a patient pop right and we would Be like why would you want the same Thing that everyone else has to be Honest what a great business they built Right they clearly defined what they Were selling they set the price and they You know they dominated they made a ton Of money and so I think that's kind of A conversation you're going to need to Have with yourself early on in this game Right is are you here to build a Scalable business or are you here to be Very creative and kind of struggle with Ups and downs uh when it comes to your Revenue stream Yeah I mean There is a space you know I don't want Everybody to believe that they just have To you know template everything there is A space for that very high-end very Unique that business that absolutely Just has to blow people away visually or Have functionality that nobody ever Thought of but you know let's face it Are you are you at that level can you Produce that do you want it is Nike is Nike going to call you like they Consider you for their next website you Know that's tough there's a whole whole I mean there's so much business out There in this million that 20 million dollar you know

Range I mean there's hundreds and Hundreds of thousands of businesses in Every state Um certainly in every country uh that That you know is there for the taking if You just need 20 or 30 clients to have a Really nice business Um then you know that's the pool to be Fishing in So you talked about websites you talked About Um content hubs What other services do you think package Up really well I mean do you guys offer Ads for sure what else works really well Yeah so so our you know Strategy is in the middle but certainly Then you know your website content SEO Social media Um paid you know ads and even the Analytics part that's you know frankly We view that as you know one of the core Tactics as opposed to an afterthought Um because it really is you know when we Get clients that we're you know as an Agency if you're not able to show a Client what I did brought you this kind Of money you know you're you're like one Month away from getting fired Um and and so you know that we see as as Not only valuable to the client but it's Also how we stay hired I mean our our Average retention in our network is 19 Months

Um and you know I suggest that's a lot Longer than you know the typical agency And a lot of it's because We present marketing as not as an event But as something that never ends we go Into every engagement saying you know We're going to mature your marketing That there are there are levels there Are stages that we're going to take you Through and here's where we're Ultimately going so part of it's just Setting that proper expectation and and I contend that is the proper expectation Because marketing isn't is really never Done it just you know changes and Ratchets ratchets up as you help Somebody grow but if if you're not Really spending a lot of extra time on Figuring out how to show them the phone Calls they got and what it was worth the Emails they got the forms they got Filled out what they were worth Um you know it's somebody's just going To wake up and say why are we paying This bill Um so it's sort of a I I view attack I View Analytics And tracking and Reporting certainly as A benefit to the client but it's Probably the biggest benefit to you as The agency as well So that's where for me it gets tough When we're talking about Um scaling and you know I I can see

Selling content hubs as like really Scalable yep versus when we're talking About multiple services that we're going To report on that's where we would burn A lot of money on account managers right Because well hey I can only do so many Phone calls in a day and they want three More phone calls and you know are not Going to say no to them like how do you Navigate that side of things when it can Go sideways pretty quickly yeah I again I think that that's Um that's part of your sales process Is how I view that I mean we set proper Expectations we actually we use count Managers Um as a part of our structure uh we Actually bring account managers into Sales calls Um and into you know the the actual you Know presentation of you know ta-da Here's what we're going to do for you Um we were all in the same room when That was said right well and not only That what I didn't know we didn't always Used to do this Um it got harder to hand them off to an Account major it's like oh we're getting The B team now oh 100 right and so now It's like no you're getting the team you Met him on day one Um here they are you know here they are And uh we find that that uh that person You know instead of them like for

Example You know if if I'm working with a client And I bring those people in I actually You know part of our strategy first They're going to present findings Um and also immediately developing trust Um you know with the client and to the Point where you know I can back away and Nobody says we're jungle Um you know because they they just don't Care anymore because they don't feel Like they got you know handed off it's Like no this is a team I've developed Some trust with But having said that we have very set You know we use a lot of tools we use Project management tool we use a lot of Communication Um you know we we have weekly monthly And quarterly rhythms that are built Into here's how we work Um and we find that uh you know most of Our clients It's so different than the way they have Been you know I think I think what we do As agencies a lot of times is we give Away our power to the client Um and the client takes it because There's a void right we have a you know Filled it so they're like well I guess I Better ask them what they're doing this Week Um and so you know if we're proactively Saying here's how it's going to work

Um and and we use we have to use Monday As a project management tool Um and we show them the Monday board That shows them the next quarter down to The date everything that's going to Happen Um you know they're pretty happy at that Point and because we've we've Proactively Um kind of gotten in front of the scope Creep and gotten in front of the you Know over communication Um that that happens I I contend because We don't fill that void for them that's A great point so two really good Takeaways from there and then I have a Hard question for you the first big Takeaway was Bring your account managers on the sales Call which I think is genius advice Especially if you are the CEO also doing The sales which I think is very common In the beginning days right because if You don't the client does feel like oh I'm getting pawned off now now that they Got my money I'm getting kicked over to The B team and and then the CEO is just Constantly going to be getting the Emails and the phone calls anyway and so You you can nip that in the butt I think That's a great Point Um Your your second great point was the Void

If a week has gone by and a client Hasn't heard from you they will Immediately start thinking nothing's Going on I better check in to make sure I'm getting my money's worth and that Random check-in is stuff that Accumulates to scope creep and scaling Sideways because it's not planned or Budgeted for right exactly exactly so a Cadence even if it's just hey here's the The report of the things that we did on The back end this week whatever that may Be Um that's good advice there My hard question for you this is a hard Question to answer for sure but I'm Curious With the way that you guys help folks Structure their offerings and and their Agencies About how many clients can you expect an Account manager to manage because this Was something that took us years to be Able to kind of figure out for ourselves Well in our you know pattern the way we Work you know the the communication the Um they're managing you know we don't Have I mean most Services we are Outsourcing to Partners that we develop Um so that's half their job frankly is Managing those third-party uh tools so We have found that the sweet spot for an Account manager is about six clients Um if it's really hard to get much past

That Um Once they once they've been doing it for A while maybe they can but that's about The ratio and and and you know when When Consultants uh agencies you know join us You know sometimes they have a structure Sometimes they have no structure at all But as you said they a lot of times the Owner or the founder is doing a lot of The client relationship is doing a lot Of the selling is Um you know is really Um you know out there kind of uh you Know beating the bushes and that you Know they get stretched really thin and So without that account manager you know I always tell people as soon as you got Three clients get an account manager Because you're gonna out especially if You've never had one before because You're going to get to the point where You know balls are dropping and now it's Now it's actually harder To bring somebody in Um you know because You know your first account manager is Going to feel like two steps backwards Um because you're you know you're Figuring it out again that's another Thing that the benefit of you know we've We've done it thousands of times now uh We've kind of figured out you know how

To attract that person how to you know Train that person how to onboard that Person what to give them to do Um you know using our system so that's Another you know real benefit of joining Any kind of a group where you're going To be able to just take tools and take Learnings and take processes and you Know apply them instead of you know Recreating the wheel Uh but I'm curious since you said that Was a hard question Um What's your response to six Well you know I'm fascinated because Again obviously this I think differs if You ask any agency they're going to have A different number but when you told me That you shoot for 70 profit margin and Your account managers manage about six Accounts And you've been doing this for this long So you're clearly you know the pro You've got the the proof to back up that This works I'm I'm fascinated I mean for Us it was we needed account managers to Manage at least 15 accounts in order to Make numbers work but our profit margins Were nowhere near 70. and so you know In my mind I'm wondering Well maybe you know they they achieve That magical place where they're Actually doing better work that leads to Better retention so that you can

Actually kind of slow down and focus on Things and one person's not running Around putting out a million fires and It's actually running you know and don't Get me wrong like we went through phases Where we had things running very Smoothly as well But um yeah I mean As if I were an account manager having Six accounts that would be amazing Um Yeah I Obviously comes down you know our Average retainer is five thousand Dollars a month you know with clients uh Strategy is which I think is actually Well above the norm as well there so That makes a lot of sense Um our strategy engagement is ten Thousand dollars um so you know people Start out at that level with us Um typically you know five thousand Dollars a month for the retainer so at Five thousand dollars a month I think One of the real Keys is people expect Well they do want results but they Expect Community communication yeah and That's a piece that I think we do you Know pretty well I I hate to pick on SEO Agencies sorry if you're listening um I'm not talking about you I'm talking About the other so SEO agencies Um notorious for charging in that Neighborhood and then giving people you

Know a report every month that doesn't Tell them anything Um and you know we really we do as much Teaching Um you know our strategy Um Component one of the elements is a Midpoint meeting in which we really want Them to have their whole whole team but Certainly any leadership any anybody Who's going to have anything to do with Marketing because we're going to Actually teach them a whole new approach To the customer Journey you know we're Going to teach them about Hub Pages Um and and that part I think is what Really uh makes it so I I don't I mean Makes it hard for people to fire us but We get we we just developed such a Relationship Um with that approach that it just uh That's why I think one of the reasons Our attention is high but you know we Also at the end of the day you have to Get results too well I mean that's very Interesting you know because again in my Mind it seems like well if you have six Accounts you have way more time to Communicate with them and it seems Pretty clear that that translates into Longer retention the ability to sell Higher packages Better relationships things like that so I mean yeah it makes sense now let me

Ask you I mean Um we don't have a ton of time left so I Do want to make sure that we cover what You guys have going on I know you have a Webinar coming up I do um Your system These numbers are all really impressive Right when we talk about them compared To the industry standards that's a Higher average monthly retainer price Way longer average retention for your Clients Um if I'm listening I'm new to this I'm Like this sounds great like sign me up How do I learn how to do this is it Realistic that somebody brand new to the Industry can jump into the ducting Method or do you feel like you need to Be you know at least have some Background some experience well I I Think your paths will be a little Different but we you know all I can tell You is about 30 percent of the people That have joined our Network and Licensed our system were brand new Um and there's no question if you're Coming out of corporate jumping into This thing the first season you got to Learn is like nobody takes out the trash Um you know nobody nobody there is no I.T Department to fix your computer Right and so you're you're dealing with A lot of the stuff that's not really Related to you know delivering marketing

Services right so that that's part part Of the challenge is just really adopting Or adapting I should say to the Lifestyle Um that you know that this business now Uh presents so you know we've got a lot Of experience and a lot of our training Is focused on you know where people are Uh in their Journey so you know we have Very very basic how to set up a Corporation you know how to start taking Credit cards I mean so we have that part For people that need it Um just because we've been doing this so Long Um but there is no question Um People who come to us and they have Figured out how to get clients they have Some marketing experience they just need A better process you know they just need To raise their prices I mean those folks You know day one are like this is the Best thing I've ever done why didn't I Do this five years ago but we have Plenty of people that now have million Dollar businesses that you know started From zero And do you guys also go into prospecting I can't remember do you help folks with The the front end too yeah yeah Absolutely Um you know a big part of our even Initial certification training is we

Have somewhat perfected you know three Methods for Um agencies to get clients Um none of them are cold calling Um they you know they're really again There are certainly people that are you Know running cold ads you know running Cold emails to you know vsls and you Know things of that nature and they're Making it work it's just a giant numbers Game uh to make you know to make that Work we've got some ways that uh you Know especially that agency that just Wants to attract eight or ten more you Know ideal clients uh that if they work Our process Um you know they will succeed doing that Well John I think that means we need to Bring you back for another episode where We talk about those three things because I'm sure there are a lot of people on Their edges edge of their seats right Now but I know we're going to run out of Time and I do want to make sure that People know that you guys have a webinar Coming up on January 24th that's right January 24th we do we do these Periodically but the next one is January 24th uh it's actually called how to Build a ridiculously profitable agency Without adding overhead so we'll get Into some of the specifics of of things That you and I talked about Um it is and I don't know if you put

This in in show notes or anything but They can find it at Dtm.world uh Slash no dash overhead Terrible URL but to spit out over uh Voice but it's just dtm.world slash node Dash overhead sign up for that uh 10 I'll I'll show you you know some of the Or I'll go in you know deeper kind of The the four aspects of our you know key Aspects of our system how to think like A fractional CMO you know with an Implementation team I think that model Is a is extremely relevant uh today as As business owners are kind of waking up To the idea that they do need strategic Help Um It might be you know if it makes sense To you we will talk about you know Obviously in that uh how somebody Acquires and license uh licenses our System as well Awesome You know if you if you're young in the Agency game um or even if you're not and Your profit margins are nowhere near 70 Um or if you feel like you're kind of on The revenue roller coaster Um first of all I think that's super Common but I think it should be your Your number one thought or concern at This point because it really you know Looking back You really just spin your wheels for

Years until you kind of get out of that Rut and so figuring out the most Important thing that your agency should Focus on is being able to scale That's really the whole game right and Some of us spent years figuring it out And some of us have it packaged up for You ready to go uh so if you can make The time I would definitely suggest Checking out the webinar we'll put the Link in the show notes Below in the Description for sure but John really Appreciate you coming on to talk about This uh critical topic awesome well it's Always great to visit with you and Hopefully we can do it again soon all Right I'm gonna hold you to it thanks For watching guys we'll see in the next One Thank you